3分钟11问 | 专访UNStudio资深建筑师Sander

文章来源于公众号 那小海的故事，作者那小海

30多年前，UNStudio还只是一支笔、一个绘图板和两位年轻人的一个想法：代尔夫特理工大学讲师Ben van Berkel和艺术史学家兼建筑记者Caroline Bos。他们勾勒出了第一批设计方案和UNStudio的未来构想。从那以后，UNStudio一直勇往直前，从未停止前进步伐。如今UNStudio在两大洲设有四个国际办事处，超过250位建筑师和设计师，项目遍布30多个国家。每天，设计师都努力塑造理想生活的美好世界，每一寸设计都围绕人类需求，连接快速发展的社区、建造文化机构、建造房屋、利用新兴技术、培养年轻建筑师、以及最重要的累积知识。

UNStudio资深建筑师/副理Sander Versluis将在本次峰会上分享 “Talking Skin" 的主题演讲。那小海作为本次峰会特邀记者，连线UNStudio，与Sander针对本次峰会的三大主题进行探讨，解析UNStudio的设计关键词，并了解疫情对于建筑师的影响和思考。

1. 本次峰会的主题是“立体创新，绿色宜居，健康活力，高层建筑与高密度核心区的品质营造。经过这次疫情，您对这个主题，有没有认识上的改变？

The topic of the conference is “spacial innovation、green living、health and vitality, optimizing the quality of tall buildings and high density core area”. After these months epidemic, any change of your thought on the topic?

Sander: 长期以来UNStudio事务所已形成一种“以人为本”的设计语言。在19世纪90年代我们设计阿纳姆中央车站的早期时候，人们通过不同交通方式在这个公共交通枢纽中穿梭的场景，就是我们设计该项目的形态和组织的基础。

UNStudio has for a long time already fostered a design language centered around people. When we worked on the early designs for Arnhem Central Station back in the 1990s, the people flows between the various forms of transport at this public transport hub formed the basis for the form and organisation of the project.

阿纳姆中央车站 / 荷兰阿纳姆 1996–2015

▲ 摄影︰Hufton+Crow

最近，你能看到一些小型的与城市相关的实验正在悄然发生，城市空间愈加完善，也更适应人们不同的空间需求。所到之处，你都能感受到当地的特征和创意的交互。比如阿姆斯特丹，从前狭窄的步行道拓宽了，把道路更多的让给行人；在巴黎，停车空间以快闪咖啡露台的形式变成了公共空间。疫情期间，人们尤其享受这些新空间，因为是这些空间让他们可以在遵守社交距离的同时享受夏天时光。由此可见，城市证明了它自身的灵活性超出我们的想象。

More recently, you see small experiments taking place, where cities refine different spaces to fit people’s changing spatial needs. Almost everywhere you walk these days you come across local interpretations and innovative interventions. Here in Amsterdam for example, narrow sidewalks have been extended to give more of the street to pedestrians and, like in Paris, parking spaces have been turned into public space in the form of pop-up café terraces. Especially during the recent pandemic, people have enjoyed these new spaces enormously, as they made it possible for them to adhere to the social distancing regulations outdoors during the summer days. In this way, the city has proven itself to be much more flexible than we had held imaginable.

MUMUTH音乐剧场及学院大楼 / 澳大利亚格拉茨 1998–2008

▲ 摄影︰Christian Richters

▲ 摄影︰Iwan Baan

这些自发的改变，将刺激和加速一些已经发生的变革。在同质化的城市CBD核心区，一些消失了的功能业态比如住宅区、零售和优质的公共空间重新回归，这有力的推动了城市的多样性发展，否则城市都是单一功能。墨尔本CBD是一个很好的案例，网络化的道路自然赋予了这个区域身份特性和层次。

It is very likely that such spontaneous interventions will stimulate and enhance a development that has already been happening for some time, where Homogeneous CBD / Core areas in cities are infused with functions and programs that have been lost over the years, such as residential, retail and quality public space. This is a true boost for the diversity of these otherwise mono-functional areas of our cities. The Melbourne CBD, as a good example of this, where the network of laneways has given identity and layers to the area.

©Norm Li

建筑同样具有灵活性，基础的网络（比如墨尔本霍德尔网格）可以用于一系列的功能，也可以适应今日的环境的发展。我们有机会透过表象，看到可能被隐藏的事实真相，寻找到适应未来的解决方案。

Buildings can show that same flexibility, where a base grid (like the Melbourne Hoddle grid) can be used for a range of functions, or can be adapted to the environmental needs of today. Together we have the opportunity to look beyond the exterior of the built environment and the seemingly fixed-to-what-lies-behind and future proof this.

作为参与全建设过程的专业人士，从最初的概念设计到最终移交，除了依据给定的设计任务书进行设计外，UNStudio也是一个独立的顾问。我们通过在建筑设计输出、客户的需求和愿望以及对环境的影响之间的博弈平衡，来展示和说明创新的优势和影响。

As professionals in all phases of construction, from initial concept to handover, alongside designing to a given brief, UNStudio is also an independent advisor. We show and illustrate the advantages and implications of innovation by moving on the playing field between our building design output, the client’s brief and aspirations, and the impact on the environment.

杭州来福士中心 / 中国杭州 2008–2017

▲ 摄影︰Jin Xing

▲ 摄影︰Hufton+Crow

2. 你如何预见建筑行业的发展趋势？

What do you think the trend of the architecture industry?

Sander: 我认为用预见的方式来看趋势并不正确。通常，在我们行业内，打破趋势，进行创新和跨界才更振奋人心。

I don’t believe that looking at trends per se is the right thing to do. Usually it is what breaks the trend that is more exciting, innovative and exiting in our field.

▲ 摄影︰Siebe Swart

3. UNStudio在项目中采取什么设计手法，使它们宜居、健康和充满活力?

In what ways, UNStudio do projects and make them habitable, healthy and vitality?

Sander: 正如前面提到的问题，我们一直采取“以人为中心”的设计方法。我们不仅从外到内考虑一个建筑物的形态，同时也考虑建筑物内部的空间品质和组织，由内而外的展开设计。这为内部品质空间的设计提供了更多的参考参数，比如充足的光线、良好的通风、绿意盎然等可以对人们的感觉起到积极的影响。

As mentioned in the earlier question, we have always had a very people centered design approach. We don’t only design a shape from the outside in, but take the interior qualities and the organisation of the building into account to inform the outside too. This gives additional design parameters about the quality of spaces, that are light, well ventilated and filled with green to positively affect the way people feel.

我们喜欢围绕人们的工作来设计，也喜欢探索居住在公寓里一家人的生活故事。当一个人来上班时会发生什么，他们如何在大楼里走动。他或她什么时候需要休息，一天中需要什么样的环境? 这些思考使我们意识到对别墅的设计是一种量身定制的个人任务，而对更大的建筑设计则是一种空间的集合，需要适应各种类型的人和活动的需求，以及人们在白天所需要各种能级的需求。

We like to design around the working day, or the life of an apartment owner or family by storytelling. What happens when someone arrives at work, how do they move around the building. When does he or she need a break and what kind of environments are needed throughout the day? This makes a villa design a tailored and personal assignment and a larger building a collection of spaces to fit the many types of people, activities and energy levels people have during the day.

莫比乌斯住宅 / 荷兰金理 1993–1998

▲ 摄影︰Christian Richters

▲ 摄影︰Eva Bloem

4. 建筑科技公司UNSense如何帮助UNStudio“创新地解决问题”?

How does the arch-tech company UNSense help UNStudio to “solve problems innovatively”?

Sander: UNSense让我们跳出建筑的领域来思考，去看我们如何结合科技来改善建筑环境。它探索的是可以在完全不同的层次上展开设计和测试场景。本·范·伯克尔(Ben van Berkel) 创立了UNSense，目的是运用技术创造更好的以人为中心的空间。但与更常见的智慧城市概念不同，UNSense超越了单纯的效率和与性能相关的目标，而是为积极的人类、社会和环境影响而设计。他认为，这些考虑始终可以指导开发和技术方案的实施。

UNSense allows us to think beyond the field of architecture, to look at the ways in which we can incorporate technology to improve the built environment. It is dealing with pioneering ideas that can test scenarios and design on completely different levels. Ben van Berkel founded UNSense in order to implement technology to create better human-centric spaces. But unlike the more common smart city concepts, UNSense pushes beyond mere efficiency and performance-related goals, instead designing for positive human, societal and environmental impact. He believes that such considerations should always guide the development and implementation of technological solutions.

梅赛德斯-奔驰博物馆 / 德国斯图加特 2001–2006

▲ 摄影︰Eva Bloem

▲ 摄影︰Eva Bloem

5. 如何平衡参数化或动态建筑形式或立面的项目预算?

How to balance the relationship between the project budget and parametric dynamic building form or facade?

Sander: 参数化建筑设计可以通过实现组件的全自动化生产，大大降低建筑成本。这是一个精彩的飞跃，从前人工、手工制作的组件是高价值的元素，现在可以通过自动化在很短的时间内生产。

Parametric building design can strongly reduce the building costs by allowing full automated production of the components. That is the fantastic jump that was made between manually, hand crafted components that came at a premium, and the unique elements that can now be produced in a fraction of the time through automation.

雅茂园 / 新加坡 2006–2013

▲ 摄影︰Iwan Baan

▲ 摄影︰Iwan Baan

6. 面对不同的客户、市场和施工条件，您如何平衡欧洲和中国的设计质量?

Facing different customers, markets and construction conditions, how do you balance the design quality in Europe and China?

Sander: 对我们来说，这不是一个困难的平衡，而是一种合乎逻辑的工作方式。我们很幸运能够与全球最好的合作伙伴和顾问合作，从而在全世界完成高品质的作品。

For us it is not a difficult balancing act, but a logical way of working. The quality of the industry throughout the world is very high and we are fortunate that we can work with the best partners and advisors globally.

©Eric Jap

©Hufton+Crow

7. 在你的项目中，创新的形式和复杂立面完整性背后的内在逻辑是什么?

What is the internal logic behind the integrity of innovative form and complex facade which always shown in your projects?

Sander: “复杂”这个词通常是我尽量避免的一类词。我更喜欢“回应”这个词。对一个人来说复杂的东西，对另一个人来说却很简单；电脑化生产方法使各种各样独特的建筑构件成为可能，而不用像十年前那样付出高昂的成本。

The word complex usually is a categorization that I try to avoid. I prefer the term responsive. What is complex to one, is simple to another, and computational production methods make a wide variety of unique building components possible without the excessive premium costs of ten years ago.

创新的形态从各个角度来看是不同的，比如，有些不需要立面敞开的地方，它就没有像常规设计那样打开。它是遵循其所在环境的参数而形成的一个优化的形式和表皮。

An innovative form is not the same from every angle; it is for example not open where it does not need to be. It is an optimized form and façade that follows the parameters of the environment in which it is situated.

我们不是为了复杂而复杂。看似复杂的形式或外壳，实际上是对一个完整体量中各种不同功能分区的响应和应对。通常是由模块库里的基础元素构建成大量的组合形态，给人复杂的印象，但实际上它是相当高效和容易实施建设的。

We don’t believe in complexity for its own sake. What may appear as a complex form or envelope, is actually a responsive and performative system that integrates numerous functions in one homogenous gesture, often built from families of modules that can be composed in numerous configurations. This can give the impression of complexity, whilst actually being quite efficient and affordable to produce.

Msheireb 车站室内换乘空间©Hufton+Crow

8. UNStudio 亚洲成立10年了，如果我们想给工作室找一些关键词，你们希望人们记住哪些?

After UNStudio Asia being established for ten years, which keywords UNStudio wants people to remember and recognize？

Sander: 对于关键词，我想说UNStudio是一个以未来为中心、以人为中心，采用一种整体、整合和可持续的方法来进行不同尺度的项目设计。

In key-words I would say that UNStudio is a future-focused, people-centric practice that takes a holistic, integral and sustainable approach to design across all scales.

我们通过在阿姆斯特丹、上海、香港和法兰克福设立的工作室扩展了网络，从而更好的服务于我们的客户。我们以为全球化引以为傲，同时必要的时候本土化。这是我们的力量和动力，同时让我们为之自豪的是UNStudio 亚洲迅速的成为了一个可以提供全方位服务的工作室并且正在承接多个项目。

With our offices in Amsterdam, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Frankfurt, we have extended our network to follow our clients. We are proud to be global, but with a local presence when necessary. This is our strength and driver. We are also very proud that UNStudio Asia very quickly became a full service office and is undertaking multiple projects.

新加坡科技设计大学 / 新加坡2010–2015

▲ 摄影︰Hufton+Crow

▲ 摄影︰Hufton+Crow

9. 你的主题是“会说话的皮肤”，能透露一下你的演讲内容吗?

Your topic is “talking skin”, would you mind disclose a little bit what you will share with us in your speech?

Sander: 演讲是关于建筑的响应性。有时候相对封闭的建筑表皮，如何能够被环境所影响或改进，并能同时积极地影响环境。

The speech is about the responsiveness of architecture. How a sometimes closed building skin can be informed and enhanced by its location and vice versa.

▲©PYXID

10. 你在2004年加入UNStudio，是什么吸引你在此效力16年?

You have been joined UNStudio since 2004. what attract you to work here for 16 years?

Sander: 建筑永远不会无聊。在UNStudio，多年来我们与许多不同的客户合作。每个项目都是不同的，都有自己的挑战。这在UNStudio的作品集中也可以看到，我们的建筑总是对应着它们的位置。我们不会采用一成不变的方法，在面对不同挑战时我们可以一直保持设计的热情和兴趣。

Architecture is never boring. At UNStudio we have worked with so many different clients over the years. Every project is different and comes with its own challenges. This is also visible in the UNStudio portfolio, where our buildings are always very responsive to their locations. There is never a one off solution here. That makes - and keeps - it fun.

伊拉斯谟斯大桥 / 荷兰鹿特丹 1990–1996

▲ 摄影︰Christian Richters

▲ 摄影︰Ronald Tilleman

11. 疫情如何改变你的生活?

How does epidemic change your life?

Sander: 今年，我们共同经历了这个突如其来的超现实的休止符，全球差旅大幅减少，让我们重新审视差旅的出发点。我们能以数字方式实现吗? 面对面的会议有什么好处? 我希望我们能重拾这种更谨慎的做法，更多地“三思而后行”。

This year, we all experienced this sudden surreal pause moment. I appreciated the slowdown in all the traveling around the world. It has made us more aware of the reasons for traveling again. Can we do this digitally or is there benefit to a face-to-face meeting? I hope we can regain this more cautious approach and ‘think before we do’ a bit more often.

圆形沙发 / 德国沃尔特•诺尔 2005

▲ 摄影︰Iwan Baan

▲ 摄影︰Iwan Baan

MyChair / 德国黑伦贝格 2008

▲ 摄影︰Bryan Adams

隔空合影

敬请期待明天Sander的演讲！

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