简介:DNA测试和历史证据表明,日本人可能只有很少的中国血统。然而,日本的大部分民族血统都是一种非常松散的蒙古和太平洋岛屿的混合体。中日之间的任何敌意在历史上都是一种反常现象。日本的很多历史都涉及到日本对中国的崇拜和效仿。这一点从来没有被认为是可耻的一一就像大多数欧洲人乐于受到罗马人的影响一样。·至少在东亚,使用单倍体群体并不是找到起源的最好方法
网友：
William Tait MacDonald, over a decade and counting in the land of the rising sun
威廉塔特麦克唐纳,十多年来一直在日出之地(注:指日本)
The answer to this question is,It is complicated
Take a look at this image.
这个问题的答案是,“很复杂”。
看一下这个图。
This is a map that tracks population groups by y-DNA. Notice how the Japanese population group seems to be made up mos ty of blue and yellow, with a
bit of pink and a thin slice of another oolour? That shows that while we can'tbe 100% sure that Japanese people are Chinese, or Korea, well, there
is good evidence that they re genetically related to the people of South-East Asia( China and Korea being closest)
Connect this to the his torical fact that towards the end of the last ice-age there was a land bridge between Korea and Japan, and it seems fairly ob
vaus that present-day Jap anese people received a DNA infusion from South-East Asia, probably via Korea
这是一张通过YDNA(Y染色体)追踪人口群体的地图。注意,日本的人口群体主要是由蓝色和黄色组成的,加上一点粉红和一层淡淡的另一种颜色,这表明,虽然我们不能百分百确定日本人是不是中国人或韩国人的后裔,但有充分的证据表明,他们与东南亚人有基因上的联系(中国和韩国是最接近的)将这一点与历史事实联水可时代末期,朝鲜和日本之间有一座陆地桥,很明显,今天的日本人从东南亚获得了一种DNA注入,很可能是通过韩[
However there is also a large dunk of dusty-yellow DNA(D-type), which you'l see is prent in modem-day Tibet Now isn t Tibet part of China? We
that s a highly pditical and debatable ques tion, and i won' t express an opinion but it does raise an interesting ques tion abaut what we mean
Present-day China is pretty big but it isn' t the biggest that China" has ever been. china s has varied dramatically in size and shape over the
millenia-sameone on Wikipedia put toge ther a really excellent animated map showing the canges in "China" over time
His tory of China -Wikipedia
然而,也有大量的灰黄色DNA(型),你会看到这种情况在现代西藏很普遍。西藏不是中国的一部分吗?嗯,这是一个高度政治性和争议性的问题,我不会发表任何意见,但它确实提出了一个有趣的问题,当我们说“中国”这个词时,我们的意思是什么今天的中国是相当大的,但它并不是“中国”有史以来最大的。几千年来,中国在规模和形态上发生了巨大的变化-维基百科上有人整理了一张非常出色的动画地图,显示了“中国”随着时间的推移而发生的变化
The bottom line here is that in terms of scientific evidence it is undeniable that " Chinese" people(and I put that in inverted cammas because it
feels pretty ridiculous to make such a gross generalisation about such a huge and genetically diverse group of people)and "Japanese" people share
a lot of common ances tors, and that Japan was entirely prob ably populated via South-East Asia across the land bridge during what is referred to in Ja
pan as the Joman Era( Joman peri
This would correspond to roughly the Xia dynasty in China, and so if one is being tecnical, the people crossing the land bridge into Japan
wouldn'thave been carrying Chinese passports (if such things exis ted at that time), so technically"the Japanese aren t chine probably
这里的底线是,就科学证据而言,不可否认的是,“中国人”(我把它放在引号中,因为对如此庞大的、基因上多样化的群体作如此粗略的概括,这是相当荒谬的和“日本人″有许多共同的祖先,而且日本很可能主要由在日本所称的绳纹时代(om时代维基百科)间通过东南亚構跨大陆桥的人构成的这大致相当于中国的夏朝时期,所以如果一个人是基于理论性的,穿越大陆桥进入日本的人可不会携带中国护照(果当时有这样的东西),那么“从理论上讲”,日本人不是中国人。
However they share a lot of the same ances tors, so in practical terms they are related.
and all this question illustrates is the headaches i get when trying to explain the scientific reality (dNa groups) in terms of arbitrary and shi
fting sodial boundaries like countries
所有这些问题都说明了我在试图解释科学现实(DNA群体肘遇到的头疼问题,因为这些国家的社会界限是任意的和
网友：
Andy lee chaisir, 100% Human
安迪·李·查西里,100%的人类
There s an interes ting theary that prehis toric people from what is today Tibet and Yunnan, China were part of the same cul ture as the earliest inha
itants of what would be known as Japan.
I first heard of this from reading Hayao Miyazaki s cdlected essays, here s an artide referencing them
有一种有趣的理论认为史前的人们来自于今天的西藏和云南,中国和最早的日本人是同一种文化的一部分。我是在阅读宫崎骏( Hayao Miyazaki)收集的文章中第一次听说的,这里有一段引用来自这些文章
Miyazaki Hayao claims to have been profoundly in fuenced by the " broadleaf evergreen forest culture hypothesis" of ethn botanist N akao Sasuke(1
916-93 whose work he read while still in his thirties. The theory is that in preis toric times, the broadleaf evergreen forests that covered a lar
ge expanse of Asia, from the Himalayas to sauthem China, Taiwan, and southwest Japan, nurtured a common cul ture. It identifies an "East Asian ares
ent centered in China s Yunnan province as the birthplace of this culture and the cammon saurce of a wide range of features that found their way i
nto the Jomon culture of western Japan, induding the preparation of sud "typically Japanese"fermented foods as miso and natto
宫崎骏(Mγ ozaki Hayao)称,他深受民族植物学家中尾佐助( Nakao sεsuke,1916-193)的阔叶常绿林文化假说"的影响,他在三十多岁时就读过他的作品。这种理论认为,在史前时期从喜马拉雅山到中国南方、台湾、日本西南部,覆盖了日本西部绳纹文化的共同发源地其中包括制作"典型的日本发酵食品如"mso和“nat″。(译注:即味噌和纳豆)
【译注: ethnobotanist,民族植物学家,还真有这样一门学科】
Miyazaki realized that, before there was a Japan, the Japanese were part of this andent ecological and cul tural sphere. He felt elated at the re
lization that he was not merely a dizen of Japan, living within the narrow and often vexing aon fines of Japanese culture and his tory, but also part
of something much larger. This sweeping, in tegra ted regional perspective freed him to give expression to Japanese nature and culture through the med
ium of animation, as Miyazaki has stressed in connection with his portrayal of rural Japan in Totoro
宫崎骏意识到,在有日本之前,日本人是古代生态和文化领域的·部分。他意识到自己不仅仅是日本公民仅仅生活在日本文化和历史的狭隘,常常令人烦恼的范围内,而且还是更大的事物的-部分,他感到徧高兴。这种全面、综合的区域视角使他能够通过动画媒介表达日本的自然和文化,正如宫崎骏在τotαo(龙猫)中描绘日本农村时所强调的那样。
grew up eating special Yunnan fermen ted tofu that s quite pungent and also enjoy natto, so I like the theary.
The part about rural Japan in Totoro being men tioned is also interes ting as when same of my family members that grew up in Taiwan watched it they re
marked how familiar it felt Before Taiwan my family was fram Yunnan
This is all prehistoric stuff though, befare there was a oncept o中国∝日本
我是吃着特制的云南发酵豆腐长大的,这种豆腐味道很刺敫,也很喜欢纳豆,所以我喜欢这个理论。龙猫“中关于日本农村那部吩分也很有趣,因为我在台湾长大的一些家庭成员观看了这部电影他们说这种感觉非常熟悉,来台湾之前,我的家人来自云南不过这些都是史前的东西,在此之前还没有”中国“或”日本“的概念
网友：
Armand Sadowski, studied Intemational Relations Philosophy at Alexandru Ioan Quza University(2017)
Armand sadowski,亚历山大·伊万·库扎大学国际关系与哲学研究(2017年)
In the late pleis tocene Era the Japanese archipelago was connected to the Asian continent in the narth and south by land masses. The preis toric pop
ulation of Japan was formed from ethnically diverse graups which migrated from variaus places like north, east and south China, the Korean Pen
the ryukyu Islands, Siberia, Indochina and even the Indonesian area. Because of this, the exact origin of the Japanese people remains to this day an
enigma which s timulates researchers to produce captivating thearies. After the glaciers gradually mel ted, Japans islands became isdated and the c
antras ting cul tures slowly combined into what soientists generally call the Jamon people. Not only were they ethnically and al turally diverse, but t
ney also setted in different regions of Japan, shaping very diverse local aul tures. Bearing in mind that the existence of Jamon culture has been fou
nd to cover a tremendous period of time archaeologis ts have divided the Jamon period into at least four parts: incipient early, middle and late. The
main fea tures of the Jamon cultures have been identified thraugh comparative studies of discovered vessels, pottery figurines, bone and stone jewel
tods, skeletons, primi tive dwellings, and traces of varied food cansump tion
新世( Pleistocene era)晚期,日本群岛与亚洲大陆南北以陆地群相连。日本史前人口是由不同民族组成的群体,他们从中国的南北、朝鲜半岛、琉球群岛、西伯利亚、印度支那甚至印尼地区迁移而来。正因为如此,日本人的确切起源至今仍是一谜,促使硏究人员提岀了各种迷人的理论。在冰川逐渐融化后,日本的岛屿变得孤立,不同的文化慢慢地结合在一起,科学家们通常称之为绳纹人。他们不仅在种族和文化上具有多样性,而且在日本的不同地区定居,形成了非常多样化的当堩文化。考虑到绳纹文化的存在已经被发现涵盖了一个非常广泛的时期,考古学家们已经将绳纹时期划分为至少四个詺吩分:初期、早期、中期和晩期。通过对已发现的器皿、陶俑、骨和石制品、工具、骨骼、原始住所和各种食物痕迹的比较硏究,确定了绳纹文化的主要特
【译注:更新世( Pleis tocene era),也称洪积世(从2,588000年前到11,700年前),英国地质学家莱伊尔1839年
创用,1846年福布斯又把更新世称为冰川世】
The Early Antiquity of the Coun try of the Rising Sun is positioned at the barder between ardhaedagy and history. There are no contemporary Japanese
written records describing this era; the only contemporary written records are found in the chinese chronicles. From a scientific point of view, this period is divided into two parts: Yayoi and Kofun. According to dassical theories, the Yayoi people migrated from Korea and China into Japan starting fram 300 BC however, newer studies suggest that the first migrations happened in 900 BC.
日升之国的早期古代史介于考古学和历史研究之间。当代日本没有描述这个时代的书面记录,唯一的当代书面记录出现在中国编年史中。从科学的角度来看,这一时期分为两部分:一是弥生时代(Yaya),二是古坟时代(Kon)。根据古典理论,从公元前30年开始,弥生人从韩国和中国迁移到日本;然而,较新的硏究表明,第一次迁徙发生在公元前900年。
Same Jomon people were conquered and assimilated by the yaya, while others simply adap ted to the new tedhnology and way of life. Furthermore, Ainu people, a particular population of Joman that originated from Siberia, refused to adapt and preserved their traditions in the nar th of Japan. Spedalists cannot agree on the topic of the Japanese genetic and al tural origins because they have no dear evidence about the actual contribution of eacpopulation. What is certain is that the Yayoi period is notable for the apparition of agriculture and bronze and iron tools and weapons, with big vilages and communities that eventually eated towns, commerdial centers and tribe s federations
一些绳纹人被弥生人征服和同化而另一些人只是简单地适应了新的技术和生活方式。此外绳纹时代来自西伯利亚的阿伊努人拒绝被改变和同化,在日本北部保留他们的传统。专家们无法就日本的遗传和文化起源这一主题达成一致因为他们没有明确的证据证明每个人群的实际贡献。可以肯定的是,弥生时期以农业、青铜和铁工具及武器的岀现而闻名,最终形成了城镇、商业中心和部落联盟
t we can say for certain is that the ancient chinese played a significant rde from a genetic point of view but without a causality lix, the Japanese Taking into consideration all the various elements that i presented, there are countess thearies regarding the genetic origins of the Japoriginating from many other places, in different stages of their history. The cultural in fuence of dhinese empires and the Korean kingdoms was mud more important, espedally during the Tang dynasty(618-907).
鉴于上面我提到的各种因素,关于日本人的基因起源有无数的理论。我们可以肯定的是,古代中国人从遗传学的角度发挥了重要作用但没有因果关系,在其历史的不同阶段,日本人起源来自于其他许多地方。中华帝国和朝鲜王国的文化影响更为重要,尤其是在唐朝(618-907年)。
For a complete analysis over the subject of the Japanese origins, please check aut my ar ticles dedica ted to this subject: Jamon, Late Paleoli thic and Nedithic(Anthropdagy, ard aeology and the cultural and genetic origins of the Japanese); Yaya(Agriculture iran, bronze and the legendary shamueen Himiko and Kofun( Burial maunds, horse riders and the ascension of the Yamato clan There i disas all the important thearies and bring them up to date. Still, if you don' t have the patience for it I will just sum up the most important paints
为了对日本起源的庄主题进行全面分析,请看看我专门讨论这个主题的文章:《绳纹时代、旧石时代晚期和新石器时代》(人类学、考古学和日本人的文化和遗传起源);弥生(农业、铁器、青钷和传说中的萨巫后卑弥呼咊咕古坟(葬土冢、骑士和大
网友：
Valentine Lim, Lives in Singapore
valentine lim,生活在新加坡
和氏族的崛堀起)在那里我讨论了所有重要的理论,并将它们呈现出来
I have read through qui te a few of the answers and comments to this question and it dawned on me that there is a lot of can fusion as most of the ans
wers and comments have ane major false assump tion
我已经阅读了很多关于这个问题的答案和评论,我突然意识到侑很多疑惑,因为大多数的答案和评论都有一个很大的错误假设
In trying to compare the Japan ese people to the Chinese, it is de fini tely correct to say that an the Japanese side there is some Chinese" or main
land North-East Asian influence both genetically as well as cul turally
The confusion is a result of not examining dosely the other side of the comparison, L e. what does it mean to be Chinese"!
在试图将日本人与中国人进行比较的过程中,我们可以肯定地说,在日本方面,有一些“中国”或中国东北地区的影响,既有基因上的,也有文化上的
这种混淆是由于没有仔细研究比较的结果,即:“中国人”到底指什么?
The implicit false assumption many make is that Chineseness" is an ethnic ar genetic construct. My personal opinion is that "Chineseness" is ma
inly a atural construct that became domin ant in the East Asian region. This region was for most of reaarded his tory an isola ted region and develope
d independently of the other cultures in West Asia etc- similar to the pre-Cdlumbian cultures of the Americas
The difference is that chinese aul ture has uniquely of all the early al tures survived(so far) to the present day. The concept of being Han chinese
is similar to the concept of being Roman as that empire grew and evolved. Many modem European aul tures still ontain relics of Ramanness-use of zar Kaiser et
许多人隐含着一种错误的假设,即“中国性″( Chineseness)是一种民族或基因构造。我个人的观点是,“中国性″主要是种在东亚地区占主导地位的文化建构。这一地区大部分被记录的历史时期里都是一个独立的区域,与其它文化比如西亚地区文化相比,是相互独立发展的,类似哥伦布发现美洲大陆前的美洲文化。不同之处在于,中国文化在所有早期文化中都是独一无二的存在,直到今天倒到目前为)。而作为汉族人的概念类似于罗马帝国的发展和演变,许多现代欧洲文化仍然包含包含着罗马的遗存-比如αx(沙皇,独裁者), Kaiser(凯撒,皇帝)等等词汇的使用
The Han Chinese aul ture became dominant as it became synonymous with civilization. The Chinese al ture through certain accidents of his tory develped a great resilience. China was conquered many times in history -Tang, Yuan and ching dynasties and ead time the conquering peoples became another of Chinese-being absorbed into the 5,000 year old tapestry that is chinese cul ture. Same possible examples of those fortu taus accidents of history could be the spread and acceptance of Confucianism and, perhaps more power fully, the unifying and farsigh ted reforms of the first emperor of thunited China-Qin Shi Huang Di-civil service by the governing mandarins-unifying written sot and sheer force of his will. Time-3, 000 years before and 2,000 years after that significant event (unification )of cul tural isdatian thereafter and dominance over the East Asian region. I am sure there are other factors that i may have missed out that cemented the construct of Chineseness in that region
汉民族文化成为文明的代名词,成为主导文化。中国文化经历过一定的历史偶然发展,形成了巨大的适应能力。中国在历史上曾多次被征服-唐朝、元朝、清朝,每一次征服的民族都变成了另一种类型的中国人,被500多年的中国文化所吸收。这些偶然的历史事故的之所以被湮灭,可能是得益于儒学的传播和接受,也许更有力的是,统一的中国第一位皇帝秦始皇的文官制度的统一和有远见的改革-统一的书面文字和他纯粹的意志力量。在时间-3000年前和2000里,这一重大事件(统一)文化隔离,并主导了东亚地区。我相信还有其它因素,我可能错过了,但这一因素巩固了”中国性“在该地区的建构。
Significantly, there were various graups that resisted the pull of Chinese cul ture, enaugh at least to remain al turally separate peoples-Koreans
Japanese, Thais, vietnamese are examples
As an interes ting addendum -the conquering Qin Shi Huang Di was from a graup that at that time was not considered a true Han Chinese group(they were on the fringe of the region considered truly Han Chinese)-yet his conquest is the main event that defines what it means to be Chinese! This is ust like Alexander the Great a Macedonian, who was not considered a true Greek
值得注意的是,有不同的群体抵袆中国文化的吸引至少足以保持文化上的独立—韩国人、日本人、泰国人、越南人是这样的例子一个有趣的咐录——征服者秦始皇来自一个当时并不被认为是真正的汉族的群体(他们处于认为是真正的汉族人的边缘地区)然而他的征服却是决定中国人意味着什么的重要事件!就像亚历山大大帝一样马其顿顷人并不被认为是真正的希腊人!
网友：
Feifei Wang, I spend about the same amount of my life in China and in the US
Feifei Wang,我在中国和美国度过的时间大致相当。
Nope. As mud as same Chinese(actually a lot of Chinese) enjoy parading aur littie fairy tales around that justify our superiority complex, Japanese didn' tstart aut from the 500 yaung boy and girls Xu Fu led on an oversea journey in searching of elixir of life
虽然有些中国人￠际上有很多中国人)欢在我们的童话故事中炫耀我们的优越情结,但日本人并不是徐福在海外寻找长生不老药带领的500名童男和童女的后裔
There is evidence of human inhabitants as early as Paledithic time period, long before Emperor Qin took power. Later an there's Joman period which was a hunter/gatherer al ture. I have a hard time believe some hunter and gatherers from dhina decide it's a good idea to make a boat and sail to Japan during that time There has been a lot of travelling between Chin a and Japan through aut histary (after boats were invented.), and aur cul tures had in fluenced each other
有证据表明,早在旧石器时代,早在奉始皇掌权之前,那里就有人类居住。后来又岀现了绳文文化,这是一种狩猎/采集文化我很难相信一些来自中国的猎人和采集者认为,在这段时间里,制造一艘船并驶往日本是个好主意。中国和日本史上有很多来历史在船只发明之后…),我们的文化相互影响。
But Japanese aul ture should not be considered as a sub culture, ar a derivative fram dhinese culture. Theyre, perhaps mare like brother sis ter aulture, that shares a lot of things in comman, but still independent.
但日本文化不应被视为亚文化,也不应被视为中国文化的衍生。他们也许更像兄弟或妲妹文化,有很多共同之处
网友：
Alief Iman, lives in Beijing, China(2017-present
阿尔弗雷德·伊曼,生活在中国北京(2017至今)
A 2007 study by nonaka et al. reported amang 263 cambined samples, the frequencies of the D2, O2b, and o3 lineages were 38.8%, 33.5%, and 16.8%,I
pectively, which constituted approximately 90%of the Japanese population
引用
2010年的顶研展告在26个样本中,020m,的频率别为、35%和16,点本人口
Haplogroups D2, O2b, and 03 are the main Y-cramosome DNA markers faund in Japanese males. Below Im going to explain more abaut these markers tin the context of Ainu, Japanese, Korean, and Han Chinese males anly
单倍体D2、0b和03是日本男性主要的Y染色体DNA标记,关于这些标记下面我会做进一步的解释,但在只有阿伊努、日本、朝鲜和汉族男性的背景下
Haplogroup D21], about 35-40%(high frequency ) of Japanese males belong to this haplogroup.
单倍体D2,大约35-40%(高频率)日本男性属于这个单倍体。
Anu(阿伊努人)√
panese(日本人)
Korean(韩国人)
an chinese(汉族中国人)
Considering this fact, I see D2""Ainu ar Joman marker" as almost certainly the Japanese inherited the marker from the Ainu
鉴于这一事实,我认为D2是阿伊努人或绳文人的标记",因为几乎可以肯定,日本人从阿伊努人那里继承了这个标记
Anu(阿伊努人)
anese(日本人)v
Kean(韩国人)√
Han Chinese(汉族中国人)X版初所育
Haplogroup O2b[2], abaut 30-35%(high frequency) of Japanese males belong to this haplogroup onsidering Japanese is an archipelago and Korean is a peninsula, Isee 02b" as "Korean ar Yayoi-1 marker as almost cer tainly the Japanese inherited the marker from the koreans
倍体b[2],大约30-35%(高频)的日本男性属于这一单倍体。考虑到日本是一个群岛,而韩国是一个半岛,我认为"Ob"是韩国人或弥生1的标记,因为几乎可以肯定,日本人从韩国人理里继承了这个标记
Haplogroup 03[3], abaut 15-20%(moderate frequency ) of Japanese males belong to this haplogroup
Anu(阿伊努人)
Japanese(日本人)√
Korean(韩国人)√
Han chinese(汉族中国人)√
Considering Japanese is an archipelago, Korean is a peninsula, and Chinese is a mainland, Isee 03" as Chinese ar Yayoi-2 marker as almost ce
rtainly the Japanese and Koreans inheri ted the marker from the chinese.
单倍体O3[3],大约15-20%(中等频率日本男性属于这一单倍体。考虑到日本是一个群岛,韩国是一个半岛,而中国是一个大陆我认为O是中国人或"弥生2的标记,几乎可以肯定的是日本人和韩国人从中国人那里继承了这个标记
At this point you could see that only about 15-20% of Japanese males share their paternal lineages with Han Chinese males. If the Japanese are chi
nese descendants, the frequen cy of Chinese ar Yayai-2 marker should be at least more than 50%, not just 15-20%. If same of you somehow still believe
that the Japanese are Chinese descendants, how you cauld explain the fact that 80-85% of Japanese males don't share their paternal lineages with Han Chinese males? From where they got their Ainu or Jomon and Korean or Yayoi-1 markers? From ma ting with aliens?
在这一点上你可以看到只有大约15-20%的日本男性与汉族男性共享了他们的父系血统。如果日本人是中国人的后代,中国人或弥生2号标记的频率应至少超过50%,而不只是1520%。如果你们中的一些人仍然相信日本人是中国人的后代,你怎么解释80-85%的日本男性没有和汉族男性共享他们的父系血统?他们从哪里得到他们的阿伊努或黾纹和韓国或弥生1的标记?和外星人交酐来的吗?
网友：
Edit 13 April 2017
Actually th ere're still other haplogroups which are faund in Japanese males, however the frequences are too low (less than 10%) thus I deaded not
to include them on the list above. D2, O2b, and o3 haplogroup s are the most common Y-chramosame DNA markers among Japanese males, theyre faund
igh to moderate frequencies in all Japanese graups fram Hokkaido in the Nor theast to Kyushu in the Southwest
don't need to show any maps to support my answer, since other answers have provided the maps
编辑,201难4月13日
际上还有其他的单倍体存在于日本男性身上,但是频率太低(不到10%),因此我决定不把它们列入上面的列表。D2、O2b和O倍体是日本男性中最常见的Y染色体DNA标记,在日本东北部的北海道到西南部的九州所有日本人群体中,它们都处于
高频到中度频率。
网友：
Andrew Ferris, English Teacher(2011-presen
Partially but. no more than partially.
There are at least three previaus genetic groups that make up the current Ja
部分,但…只是部分,不会更多。
至少有三个基因组构成了当前的日本人
The first graup is more related to the native Philipine people, native Taiwanese and the Okinawans. It seems likely that they came to the island first The later inhabitants generally pushed them out further and further north- though it would be a mis take to insist that there was no mixing-naurally there was
The seoond group is related to the Mongolians and Koreans and came from the Korean peninsula. They set up their own civilization on the island while
both pushing aut and mixing with the previously mentioned graup
And then the third wave came fram somewhere they would at some paint be considered part of china-though it is doubtful that they would have identfed themselves as"Chinese"at the same Sl, far sake of brewity-sure, yau could say that the third wave came from China-spedificallysauthen China, I believe.
第一组与菲律宾人、台湾本地人和中绳人的关系更为密切。他们似乎是先来到这个岛上的人,后来的居民通常会把他们推到更远的北方去一一虽然坚持不存在混合是错误的—实际上是有的。第二组与蒙古人和韩国人有关,来自朝鲜半岛。他们在岛上建立了自己的文明,同时又与前面提到的那群人进行了交流和融合然后第三波来自某个地方,他们在某些时候会被认为是中国的部分-一尽管人们怀疑他们是否会同时将自己定位为“中国人不过,为了简洁起见一当然,你可以说第三波来自中国一尤其是中国南方。
How much of each group does the Japanese pop ulation comprise of? It really depends on the region( though far less recen ty than 10
he individual. There are Japanese who look indistinguishable from chinese(then again, what does it even mean to look chinese given that if itren' t for a successful empire the country would likely be 20 countries instead of one), others look so " Korean"(though let s not mistake that there isn' t a lot of Chinese gene tic stock in Korea) that no one can tell the difference.
日本人口中的每一个群体中有多少是由他们组成的?这实际上取决于该地区(尽管比100年前要少得多厢个人。有些日本人看起来和中国人没什么区别(话说回来,如果不是一个成功的帝国,中国可能会是20个国家而不是一个国家,这对看起来像中国人的人这意味着什么呢?),其他人看起来像韩国人",(尽管我们不应该错认为在韩国没有太多的“中国基因”),没有人能分辨出其中的区别。
en treated really badly during certain parts of mare recent his tory (since the 18th cen tury), but mmigr ation has been a cans tant reality. And aiter V
And let's not pretend that there hasn' tbeen constant immigration from Korea and China during all of Japanese recorded history. Immigrants ha
however many generations, they stop identifying as samething oth er than simply Japanese
让我们不要假装在日本有记录的历史上没有来自韩国和中国的持续移民。在近代历史的某些阶段(18世纪以来),移民受到的待遇非常糟糕,但移民一直是一个不变的现实。然而,经过了许多代之后,他们把自己定义为日本人"’而不是除此之外的任何人
As for aul turally tough. yeah, Japanese culture overwhelmingly came from China with a fair bit of it being filtered thraugh Korea. Nearly everything Japanese has its roots in China somewhere in the past(and of ten enaugh, India before that). Even the whde samurai cul ture was based on the mytof the heroes fram ramance of Three Kingdoms
通常在那之前印度也是如此)的某个地方至整个武士文储都是建立在“三国演义”中英雄神话的基础之上于中国过去至于文化方面是的,日本文化绝大多数来自中国,其中相当—部分是通过韩国过滤的。几乎所有的日本文化根植
Any animosity between Japan and China is historically an anomaly. a lot of Jap anese history invdves Japan admiring and emula ting China. And nothing
abaut that was ever considered shameful just like most of Europe was happy to be in fuenced by the ramans
中日之间的任何敌意在历史上都是一种反常现象。日本的很多历史都涉及到日本对中国的崇拜和效仿。这一点从来没有被认为是可耻的一一就像大多数欧洲人乐于受到罗马人的影晌一样
long) deaded to send all the samurai to Karea to try to conquer it The result was devastating for all invdeg lil war fram erup ting(didn'tlast
Similarly, the animosity between Japan and Korea really didn' t start up until Japan, in arder to stop further av
类似地,日本和韩国之间的仇恨直到日本为了阻止进一步的内战爆发(没有持续多久)才开始,日本决定派造所有的武士去韩国试图征服它,结果对双方来说都是毁灭性的。
网友：
tad
Patrick Wallace, lived for 14 years in China
帕特里克华莱士,在中国生活了1哖
DNA tests and historical eviden ce suggests that the Japanese may have a very small amaunt of Chinese heritage. However, the bulk of the Japanese ethnic heritage is a mixture of what could be very loosely called Mongolian and Pacific Islander.
DNA测式和历史证据表明,日本人可能只有很少的中国血统。然而,日本的大部分民族血统都是一种非常松散的蒙古和太平洋
岛屿的混合体。
Regarding the Mongdian heritage, there is a strong linguistic lix between Korean, Mandu, and Japanese, and it is thaught that the Koreans and Japanese are closely related. The homeland for the ancient people graups that brought forth the Koreans Manchus, and Japanese was prob ably not in the Korean Peninsula ar even northeastern China-it was somewhere in eas tem Mongdia. This is not to say that any of these groups are ethnically Mangdian
It is anly to say that these groups came fram the area of Mongdia, and that they may share same ethnic lixs with the mongdians
在蒙古人种文化遗产方面,朝鲜语、满语和日语有着很强的语言联系,认为朝鲜族与日本人有着密切的联系。产生朝鮮人、满族人和日本人的古代民族的家园可能不是在朝鲜半岛,甚至不是中国东北一它在蒙古东部的某个地方。这并不是说这些群体中的任何一个都是蒙古人种,这仅仅是说,这些群体来自蒙古地区,他们可能与蒙古人有着某些种族联系。
Evidence suggests that the Japanese are also related to same populations of Padfic Islanders. It is widely thought that these islanders were the first inhabitants of Japan, but that at same paint a graup came over from the mainland and intermarried with them, farming the Japanese people. While
there are genetic lixs between the Japanese and Polynesians, for example, it should not be thaught that the Japanese are Polynesian. Rather, the padfic Islander groups who came to Japan did so long before these same groups migrated to Polynesia, thus the two graups are not identical, but share a
有证据表明,日本人也与一些太平洋岛民有血缘关系。人们普遍认为,这些岛民是日本的第一批居民,但在某个时候,一个群
体从大陆过来,与他们通婚,形成了日本人。仞如,虽然日本人和波利尼西亚人之间有基因联系,但不应认为日本人是波利尼西
亚人。相反,更确切的说,来到日本的太平洋岛民群体早在这些群体迁移到波利尼西亚之前就已经存在了,因此这两个群体并不
相同,但他们有着共同的祖先。
This is the basic theary. However, when it gets to specifics, there is hot debate amang scientists and researchers an all sides and no doubt there
are many who would take issue-not necessarily with the general theary presented above--but with the spedfic words I have chosen. To say that this disaussian is politically charged would be a gross un derstatement
这是基本理论。然而,当讨论到具体问题时,各方的科学家和硏究人员都会展开激烈的辩论,毫无疑问,有许多人会提出异议-不一定是上述的一般理论而是我选择的具体词汇。如果说这场讨论带有政治色彩,那将是一种轻描淡写的说法。
网友：
Tammy Pengelly
汤米·彭格利
Origin ally answered: Do the Japanese came from China?
原始问题:日本人是从中国来的吗
The gener ally accep ted theory in Japan is that immigration into Japan took place trough three specific routes- The Ainu came through Russia(eg. via Sakhalin befare Stalin booted them aut in the 50S, via Kamchatka and the Kurile Islands thraugh the Korean peninsula (what is referred to as the Yamato race, and through the Ryuukyuu island dain from South China via Taiwan(ie Okinawa)
在日本普遍被接受的理论是,进入日本的移民是通过三条具体路线进行的-阿伊努人通过俄罗斯(通过库页岛,斯大林在50年代将他们驱逐岀,通过勘察加岛和千岛群岛)朝鮮半岛即所谓的大和民族以及从中国南经由台湾(即从中国南方)Ryuku岛链,(即冲绳而来
Through variaus political shenanigans and wars, the Ainu, Ryuukyuu and Yamato have came to farm present-day Jap anese sodiety, however differences st
通过各种政治诡计和战争,阿伊努人、 Kyuukyuu人和大和人形成了当今的日本社会,但仍然存在着分歧一我听说冲绳人的心态与日本的态度有很大的不同
This is a very detailed website highlighting genetic migration
The Origins of the Jap anese peaple
这是一个非常详细的网站,重点介绍了基因迁移
【链接:日本人的起源】
网友：
Yu-Hsing Chen, Well versed on his tory of China, and folows its poli tics a bit
Yu-Hsing Chen,精通中国历史,并对中国政治有一点了解
Feifei ' s answer miss the fact that the Jomen peaple were actually not the ances tor of modern Japanese, at least they make up a relatively minar part of their genetics
Feifei Wang的回答忽略了一个事实,那就是绳纹人实际上不是现代日本人的祖先,至少他们在遗传学中只占相对较小的部
The main genetics of modern Japanese come fram the peaple of the succeeding Yaya period, which is a period where a new wave of migrants from Korea
and Chin a began to push into Japan via kyushu and gradually pushed the Jamon people aut (that s why the Jomen genetics are most prominently an Onawa and Ainu peaple.
现代日本人的主要基因来自于后来的弥生时代,这段时期,来自韩国和中国的新移民开始通过九州岛进入日本,并逐渐将绳纹人赶了出去。(这就是为什么在冲绳和阿伊努人身上,绳纹基因最突出的原因。)
However, one should note that the Chinese"of the period that came over are significantly different genetically from modem ones anyway as well,
as they may have been the people of Baiyue, and even if they were more of the ance in the main stream Zhou era people, the Chinese genetic make up saw many different wave of in flux from the Nomadic north in the centuries to came anyway
So the answer to all this is that there' s probably a doser correla tion than you suspect
然而,我们应该注意到那个时期的中国人"与现代中国人的基因也有很大的不同,因为他们也可能是百越人即使他们更多的是主流上的周代人,中国人的基因构成在未来几个世纪里会有许多来自北方不同游牧民族的涌入浪潮。因此,所有这一切的答案是,相关性可能比你所怀疑的更紧密。
网友：
Andrew Lee, Acupuncture and Eas tern Medidine
安德鲁李,针灸和东方医学
www Iaaa co
So using haploid groups is not the best way to find origin, at least in East Asia. What we know for sure is that primar ily there are two ethnic cradles. one fram what is now Mongdia and one fram what is now Taiwan. The mangdaid graup can be de fined by things like the dysfunction ABCC11 genet trait This trait was traced back to one single graup 40,000 years ago in what is now Mangdia And appears in Mangas, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, native Siberians and native Americans that weren't mixed with other peaple's, like in Alaska
至少在东亚,使用单倍体群体并不是找到起源的最好方法。我们确定的是,主要有两个民族摇篮。一个来自现在的蒙古,一个来自现在的台湾。蒙古人种群可以用AαC1基因的功能暲碍来定义。这种特征可以追溯到4000前的蒙古。并且出现在蒙古人中国人、韩国人、日本人、西伯利亚土著人和与其他没有混合的美洲土著人,比如阿拉斯加
So for the most part the East Asians are from the same group of people. However islanders from Taiwan mixed with Japan and southen china. This is why the abcall dys function is at nearly 100% in Korea, 97% narth China, 88% Japan, and 86% south China. It correlated with his tory of contact with narmongoloid people's such as islanders. But your average Japanese is pretty much the same as your average Chinese ar Korean with haploid distinctions happening ower time due to latitude. And these dis tinctions are for defining the populations as a whde as you can find any of the traits found in an
of the mangdaid peaple's in any of the populations it just occurs more of ten in same based on latitude.
以大部分东亚人都是同群人。然而,台湾岛民与日本和中国南方混居在一起。这就是为什么ABC11功能障碍在韩国、中国北部、日本和中国南部昐分别接近100%,97%,88%和86%的原因,它与岛民等非蒙古人种接触的历史相关联。普通日本人和般中国人或韩国人差不多,由于纬度的原因,单倍体的区别会随着时间的推移而发生。这些区别是用来定义整个种群的,它只是更经常地发生在某些基于纬度的人群中
Us Asians should all be friends we came fram the same graup. Ethnicity in East Asia is mare about culture differences than it is about actually gene
tics. We all share sin dant dental structure and ABCCll dysfunction
我们来自同一个群体的亚洲人应该都是朋友。东亚的种族更多的是文化差异,而不是基因,我们都有正畸牙齿结构和ABC11功能障碍。
网友：
Iwasaki Alex, born in Japan-Hakodate, now in Austria -Linz
Iwasaki alex,生于日本函馆,现在在奥地利林兹
Not really. It is mare that one part of our ancestors, the Yaya, originated near the yangze-river in china, but are not Han-chinese
Today modern Japanese are the mix of the Jommn people and the Yayoi people
The Jamon people are the ariginal native Japanese people and originated somewhere in Sautheast-Asia or in Indonesia. The Yaya originated near theY
angze-tiver area in southern dina and moved over the Korean pensuila into Japan. There they mixed with the Jomon and the modern Japanese(yamato)w
created
并非如此。更合适的说法应该是我们祖先,弥生人的部分起源于中国的长江流域附近,但不是汉族人。今天的日本人是绳纹人和弥生人的混合体
绳纹人是最早的日本人,起源于东南亚或印度尼西亚。弥生人源于中国南部的长江流域附近,并通过朝鲜半岛迁徙到了日本
他们与绳纹人混和在一起,然后现代日本人(大和民族)诞性生了。
today japanese peaple means the three groups: Ainu, Yamato and Ryukyuans. All are genetically related and the result of mix of Joman and Yaya
Genetically we have the haplogroup D2, 02b, 03 and O2
there are same connections to Tibetan people, Chinese people, Korean people and other Sautheast-asian populations
In linguistic terms, Japan ese is classificated as isolated language. But recent reseaches of proto-japanese show connections to other southeast-asia
So linguists often cansider Japanese as part of the Austric-family as Para-Austronesian
今天的日本人指的是三个群体:阿伊努、大和和琉球。它们都有基因相关性,是绳纹人和弥生人混合的结果。从基因上说,我们有单倍体D2,O,O3和2a这与藏族、中国人、韩国人和其他东南亚民族有着一定的联系在语言上,日语被归类为孤立的语言。但最近的研究表明,原生日语与其他东南亚语言有联系
因此,语言学家通常把日语看作是南亚语族的部分。
austric family
南亚语族
here some pictures that explain the migrations routes into Japan:
这里有一些图片解释了日本的迁徙路线
and a dna chart that show if there are relations to other ethnics or not
还有一个DNA图表显示了是否与其他人种有关系
We see that we have genetic connections today espedally to tibe tan people and other not shown sautheast-asian tribes
我们看到,我们与藏族和其他没有显示东南亚部落有着特别的基因联系。
A theory of a northem origin is debunked/obsolete
北方起源的理论被破处/厝定了
网友：
Mahendra kumar historian
库马尔·库米历史学家
From the physical characteristics like face it is almost impossible to distinguish between Japanese and chithe genes h ave got so mixed up over along period of time, especially since the Japanese dominated most of China and Sauth-east Asia durin
从面部这样的生理特征来看,几乎不可能区分日本人和中国人长期以来,这些基因一直混在一起,尤其是在二战时期,日本人主导了中国和东南亚的大部分地区
Many behavioral ch aracteristics are shared as well -use of chopsticks, complex pictograp hic language, comple te disregard of animal lifet practical purposes they can be cansidered descendants of ead other
许多行为特征是共有的-使用筷子,复杂的象形文字,完全无视动物的生命……出于最实用的目的,它们可以被视为彼此的后裔
The few differences that are there like the Japanese are hard-warking honest can be attributed to social and educational factors
少数像日本人那样的几个不同之处是勤劳、诚实……可以归因于社会和教育因素
（原创翻译转自龙腾网）